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:	post by Headbanging_Man at 2011-05-06 18:25:57

I'm more open to the possibility that OBL died this week, in light of the few reports coming out of Pakistan (namely from police who followed up the raid), it's still a super fucking fishy situation though. I am waiting for explanations about who actually was aware of his presence, if he kept a dialysis machine in the compound, why he wasn't able to bring a camcorder, etc. Obviously most every detail given out about the raid was dishonest, but if the general gist is true, I am inclined to think that instead of literally keeping OBL on ice, CIA was only metaphorically doing so, to have a real corpse when it was necessary to go in for the "victory". Believing they just found out about the spot in August 2010 requires a MAJOR leap of faith.

ArrowHeadNLI said	[orig][quote]
I think I've pretty clearly stated my opinion. And yes, 11 historic documentations at people GUESSING Osama was dead, combined with a guy with a name and position I've never heard of who "oughta know" saying he heard it from a general addressing his class who said 911 was a false flag attack, does not make me suspicious.

See, that's not all that difficult. It was more than 11 people's "guesses", and there were other circumstantial issues that added a lot to the uncertainty. It included reports in newspapers in Pakistan, Egypt, and the New York Times, as well as two (current/former) heads of state of Pakistan. Not to mention the issues surrounding Tora Bora, and the question of OBL's kidney issues (the only remotely thought-provoking comment Pam made in this thread was that our perception of his sickness/dialysis is based generally on Western/US news sources, which is a fair point)... Then there are suspicious video tapes and the sudden switch to (also fakeable) audio only, from a man who supposedly still ran a billion-dollar terror network. So I think you're understating the case for his previous death, but I've already acknowledged several times that there was nothing in the way of rock-solid proof.

Occam's Razor applied in previous assumptions of OBL's death as well; neither hide nor hair from Bin Laden except from CIA/Pentagon sources using his alleged words for propagandic purposes for over 9 years, an assumption of advance kidney disease, the realpolitik of a man hiding in a poor country with a $25mill. bounty on his head...

Even if the previous reports of OBL's death were too insubstantial to give any credence, that's hardly an argument for accepting the WH/Pentagon at face value. It's fair enough if you think that the US military black ops groups are a decent independent custodian/tester of evidence like DNA, but there is more than enough reason for many of us to view any such "evidence" as inherently compromised (as would any functional court). Likewise, this entire operation was clearly cloaked under several levels of security classifications, so the idea that military and intelligence officials couldn't manage to lie in concert with each other suggests they don't even know their jobs.

I continue to reserve judgment, and I imagine it take months for a remotely clear picture to emerge. Some in the Pakistani military are denying it was OBL who died in the raid, but on the other hand the wife that is supposedly talking now is to me, so far the most credible witness in support of the WH/Pentagon story. I'm curious to see what becomes of her and the other on site witnesses, what information surfaces about OBL's protection for the last 6 years, and if the previous death leads can be traced to any particular source of disinformation.

I still think Steve Pieczenik's words are extraordinarily interesting; the most compelling part of that interview is not the second hand OBL/9/11 info, but the fact that he says he TAUGHT false-flag/stand-down techniques at the Army War College. These are the kind of "sources and methods" that the CIA has so jealously guarded against congressional or judicial scrutiny, and I imagine the Pentagon has likewise chosen to keep hidden such blatantly dishonest tactics, as they wouldn't exactly reflect well on the nation's top brass or the military in general.

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