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:	post by BestialOnslaught at 2005-01-25 18:46:59

Who the fuck are these retards to tell us what to tolerate in OUR scene? Cathach is a great guy and a great friend. I don't support his beliefs, but I support Helvete wholeheartedly and I don't think anyone who has spoken against the event has actually been. Everyone who has been has neutral feedback at the very worst, but honestly, you're just a total pussy if you get all up in arms about seeing some drunk fucks joking around by throwing Roman salutes. I think Jimmynotanonymous, anarchistmetalhead and Dave from NEFAC need a lesson in minding their own business. Since when did their ideals become something that we should all strive for? Wow, you don't tolerate racism in any form, good for you...

Some of us, like the Helvete promoters and myself listen to bands on both the right and left sides of the political spectrum and bands on both the white and black side of the ethnic spectrum - this "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" attitude towards racism is extremely flawed, in two ways. First of all, there is no black and white when it comes to culpability, unless you are of a simple, unevolved mindset, such as those that caused things like the Spanish Inquisition, and yes, the Jewish Holocaust. Secondly, while I personally find racism to be incorrect on an intellectual level and some elements of racism (such as racial violence and complete prejudice) wrong on a personal moral level, I still acknowledge that there is no universal right or wrong to ANYTHING. When you moralize to us, it is strictly on the basis of your own beliefs and your own community's values, yet you cannot offer proof that this is universally wrong/immoral. There is no universal proof that anything is right or wrong, and all you can offer for "proof" is past history of people in certain scenes, aka stereotyping, guilt by association, etc. How is that any different from racism?

By the way, the elements of "racism"/"racialism"/race-related thinking I don't find "wrong" on a personal level? Humor and color/race conciousness. I don't see how anyone could be offended by these. Taste in humor is subjective and as entertainment, in my eyes, totally free from moral judgement. And even the most anti-racist, PC, hippie retard is still concious of the physical differences between different ethnic groups. They will still likely refer to someone as "the black person" (or "African-American person" or whatever - I've even heard non-American blacks referred to as African-Americans, it's pathetic), when pointing out someone in a crowd, but will more likely refer to a white person's features or a clothing article. It is impossible, unless you are blind and deaf to remove all conciousness of race from the mind, and the people that try to deny/suppress this are defying their own nature.

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